Stephen Doughty and Justin WebbA minister had a car crash BBC interview this morning when he was pressed over Andy Burnham’s claim that Moscow had interfered in the 2016Brexit vote.
Speaking on the Rest is Politics podcast over the weekend, the prime minister said: “I asked the question coming to Downing Street, was there interference in the 2016 referendum from Russia?
“And I’ve had the clear answer that yes, there was.
“I mean, these things are important now to put clearly on the record, and I believe, help voters in Germany and France understand that some of this politics is instigated via our enemies, namely Russia.”
Burnham is the first prime minister to ever admit Russia’s attempted involvement in the pivotal 2016 vote.
However, speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, minister Stephen Doughty struggled to present clear evidence to back up the PM’s claim.
“There is evidence they have attempted to interfere in a number of democratic processes,” Doughty said.
Presenter Justin Webb replied: “In 2016? In the Brexit referendum? Where is the evidence?”
Doughty said: “We have seen them attempt to interfere in many different ways and again, just now, I’d point you to the fact we currently have the former leader of Reform in Wales [Nathan Gill] serving time in jail for taking bribes from Russia to spew Kremlin narratives in the European parliament.”
He added: “We’ve seen them attempt to disrupt our democratic processes and institutions repeatedly, not just in this country but in countries across Europe.”
But Webb pointed out Gill took those bribes in 2018 and 2019, years after the referendum.
“So neither of those things are anything to do with the 2016 referendum,” the journalist said.
Doughty insisted that he was saying Russia has been attempting to interfere in a “range of democratic events”.
He also said he was “not going to comment on the detail of what we understand Russia attempting to do”.
The minister also referred to the 2018 Salisbury poisonings as another sign of Russia’s attempted interference.
Did Russia interfere with the Brexit referendum?
After Prime Minister Andy Burnham said he had been told definitively that there was Russian interference in the 2016 referendum, @justinonwebb presses Minister Stephen Doughty about what evidence there is to prove that. pic.twitter.com/RGmmOUeHh7
Doughty told Sky News earlier today that Moscow did not succeed in its attempts to influence Brexit.
He said: “The security minister has spoken about this before, and he’s been very clear that they’ve attempted to [but] they haven’t succeeded.
“They do attempt to interfere in our processes, have attempted to interfere in a whole number of them. And of course, it’s not just Russia, it’s other countries, too. but this is a whole society effort.”
The minister also told LBC that Russia has spent “€1.5 billion on disinformation overtly this year alone”, in a form of “information warfare”.
Conservative shadow cabinet minister Andrew Bowie was quick to criticise the government over its confused messaging.
“Well, firstly, we need to see some evidence behind this claim,” he told Times Radio.
“We know that Russia and indeed Iran and other adversaries of ours around the world have been interfering or seeking to interfere in elections and referendums in this country and indeed within our allies for many, many years.
“But that Brexit referendum was a legitimate vote.
“People voted in this country in record numbers to leave the European Union.
“And I actually think it’s very dangerous and divisive of the prime minister to reopen this debate in such an explosive fashion. “
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